Invisible to Invincible Podcast: Marketing and Branding for High Achievers

Do you ever struggle to start
conversations that feel natural online

or perhaps the idea of posting on social
media and having to talk to people and

engage with people feels overwhelming?

If so, then you are in luck because
today's guest is one of the best

people I know when it comes to having
authentic and purposeful conversations

with strangers on the internet.

She is an expert at turning those
strangers into friends and clients.

So today's guest, please join me in
welcoming my friend, Deb Coleman.

Hello friend, I'm Kendra and you've
tuned into the Invisible to Invincible

podcast, where passionately driven
business owners share their journeys

from hidden gems to industry leaders.

Together, we'll uncover the secrets,
mental shifts, and visibility and

marketing strategies that turn these
hidden gems into undeniable forces.

So hit that subscribe
button and let's dive in.

Welcome, Deb.

Thanks for being here today.

Thanks for having me, Kendra.

I can't wait to get talking with you.

Absolutely.

Okay.

For those of you who are
tuning in, I have known Deb for

several years, we're friends.

So that's a little behind the
scenes of how it's going to play out

when you're listening to us talk.

I'm excited to share and introduce Deb
with all of you because she is fantastic.

So Deb, You are a content
strategist and writer, content

conversion strategist and writer.

Let me make sure I get all
the right words in there.

Can you talk a little bit about how you
got there and how you became Deb Comen,

content strategist and writer and top
100 content marketers to follow right

now and NOW Marketing Groups lists and
making all these amazing lists of things

that you're doing with your content.

Thank you so much.

Tell us everything.

I will, I'll try.

as with most of us, it's
never really a straight line.

So my early days of working were in
the field of mental health and, you

know, like many of us, those things
that we did before usually find a way

to be of value in our current version
of how we're showing up in the world.

After that, I was home with my
kids and started editing and Doing

some grants writing because I had
done that in my previous life, too.

And what, the pivot point for me was
when I was working for a freelancer

who decided to go back to corporate.

I said, wait a minute, like I was really
enjoying this kind of part time work.

So I made a decision, like I have to
figure out how to do this for myself.

That's like exactly what I did.

I started.

you know, what we now talk about is like
cold outreach and just finding people

who said, yeah, this would be great.

I need some help with my content.

Back then it would be website
copy or that sort of thing.

It just evolved to where I
always knew from the beginning,

I was interested in why are you.

Why is this your message?

What are you trying to accomplish with it?

Which as we all know now
is the strategy behind it.

And that's what really was my love
and what led me to become more of a

content conversion strategist who also
did the copywriting, but really wanted

to help people get in touch with that.

Why and be sure that that's
threaded through all their

content, which is what I do today.

One of the things that I
absolutely admire about.

our friend Deb, is her ability to connect.

When I go on social media, Deb is there
connecting with people, encouraging

people, and really building that personal
relationship that's really important.

What inspired you?

Was that strategic?

Is that just you?

Tell me more.

Yeah, I love this.

And I think it is just me or I say just
me, but, it's really an important piece

of why people choose to work with me.

And if they want to learn how to do
that too, and many of us do have it

in us and use it, but aren't always
connecting it with, Oh, if I make this.

action.

It's really helping people to get to
know me and trust me and then make

a decision about if they want to
work with me, if it's the timing is

right and I solve their challenge.

So like most of what I've done in my
work, I've just kind of done it and

then step back and said, wait, what
is it that what am I actually doing?

Like, what are, are there steps
to this that, and there are, they

just happen almost instantaneously.

But when you break it down, then you're
able to teach it to someone else and.

talk about a little more eloquently
than, Oh, you just do it.

Well, that's not, you know what I mean?

Like, what's wrong with you?

Just do it.

Just, just engage or just, just show up.

Like we hear this a lot, right?

Show up as you.

Okay.

Well, what does that mean?

The people who find that a challenge
don't even know what that means.

They think they are, or they think
that's not the right fit for them.

So I think it's our job to to slow
ourselves down and and when something's

working for us, break it down to
where we can help other people to

do the same if they align with that.

I want to go back to a few things you
just said, and one is I have talked

to so many people when you talk about
just show up as you like, you're right.

Who is me?

I don't feel comfortable.

These are the things I've heard lately.

I don't feel comfortable.

I don't want people to
know that much about me.

I hate self promotion.

And why is anyone going to care?

Who am I?

And I think that especially as
we get older, It's that inverse.

relationship, right?

Like, I now know that how much I don't
know, whereas when I was 27, I would

have told you exactly how it was.

This is how it should be, this is what
it's gonna be, and get out of my way,

because I'm gonna make this happen.

And now, That's, it's probably
still there, let's be clear,

but it's going to be filtered through
a lot of things and now I know all

of the stuff that I don't know and I
see that creating doubt and a lot of

clients and a lot of people online.

Yeah.

I love this so much because
especially what you just said there

about what we don't know, like
this is one of those examples.

People often feel like, well,
I have to know all the answers.

And I felt this too.

If I'm going to support people with this,
I need to know A to Z about this topic.

And that's not really true.

And when we say things
like, Oh, I don't know.

Or you know what?

That part's not really my expertise.

We think that's going to repel
people from wanting to work

with us, but they say, Oh, okay.

And then they can, the thing we are
really good at that we can help them

with, they, they learn to trust us
because we're open and honest with that.

So some of those things that I think, are
real blocks for many of us, like saying,

not being comfortable with, I don't
know, or I'm not sure, or I'm learning

this myself, are really the things that.

help people trust us for, because there
are a lot of people out there doing the

opposite, and like our younger selves.

Oh, sure.

Let me do that.

And then we're like, wow, am I
going to pull this thing off?

But, but truth is we always
knew when we could help people

that we would figure it out.

So that was okay.

But there are a lot of
people out there not.

showing up that way.

Often the people who talk a lot about
integrity and authenticity, maybe not

always practicing it, that they're saying
it and, but this is where we get down

to that piece of how do we support people
to know to show up, to be who they are.

Like you said, what does that mean?

To me, it means what are our values?

And I know you work with people on
this, like you first have to identify

what they are before you can start.

Then integrating them into your
messaging and how you do video

and how you write your emails.

You have to first know what they are.

And then also what you said, Kendra,
about the level of vulnerability when

people say, well, I'm not doing that.

I'm not telling my
deepest, darkest secrets.

That's not what we're being asked to do.

Right.

Right.

I mean, it's like, No, I

don't want them.

I don't want to see them myselves, but
we get to decide where that line is.

So I think that's what you do with people.

What I support people to do is
what are you comfortable sharing?

That's non work that
allows people to see your.

values to experience your humor
or your pastime activities.

So it doesn't have to be in, in infinite
detail, but here's how I spent my weekend

or here's a place I love to visit.

Like these are all
little connection pieces.

Like we talked about connection
that allow people to relate

to us in a, in a bigger way.

And often those are the very things that
help them make their buying decisions.

I absolutely agree.

And we've talked about this before.

There's that level of each
person has a level of comfort

of how much they want to share.

And a lot of us that came from
corporate backgrounds were encouraged

not to share any of that, right?

It's for the company, it's for the brand.

No one cares about you.

They just want to know
about this bigger thing.

And over time we found
that's absolutely not true.

We want, people want to know more, and
so for me, it's been a challenge to do

people really care how much of this,
and it's something that I honestly, full

transparency, I do struggle with that
sometimes, because I don't, I, there's

so many things that I just take for
granted about my life that I don't think

anyone else is going to want to know.

And it's a way of learning and I think
it's something that we grew up with

that, younger generations don't, they
want to share a lot of people, not

everyone, I'm not trying to generalize,
but are more comfortable sharing more

because it's always been an option.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's why I think it always
goes back to supporting people

with what their current comfort
level is, what their goals are.

I mean, if they want more clients and more
sales and that's not happening and they're

doing all the things, it may be that this
piece is missing the piece about their

values, the piece about their uniqueness.

And I think it's about supporting people
to first do a little of that exploration

and then make decisions about what, like
you're saying, how far do they want to go?

It doesn't take much to tell people
what book you're reading so they get a

sense of, oh, oh, that's interesting.

Now, they're not going to say
I'm going to hire her because

we're reading the same book.

But as when they're looking at
so many marketers who do similar

work, these are the things that
help you stand out, be remembered.

And a lot of it is not just the values
and that those things, the books

we're reading or what we do in our
spare time, but how we communicate.

When we're showing up online,
engaging, like, gee, I'm really sorry

that's happening for you right now.

I, I can relate because
this is what happened to me.

People remember that.

They're watching and they're not saying,
Oh, look, there's Deb, the marketer.

They're like, Oh, that's kind of nice.

to show up that way for people.

And if that's part of how you work
and you're in the mindset arena,

they want to know, how do you engage?

How might you support them one on one?

And we can demonstrate some of that in
how we show up on social media and online.

It's so true because there's There's
something that I've been like reading

more about and studying because that's
such an interesting mindset shift when

you look from self promotion versus
personal branding and I think that

there's so many examples out there that
we assume we need to show up that way

we assume that this is what like it's
just so pervasive that we assume that

that's what we're supposed to be doing.

Yeah, I, one of the things that we
were talking about before is that I

tend to tell people that you're where
you are, you're perfectly perfect,

right where you are, as you are.

However, if you want to move
forward and reach these goals that

you haven't been able to reach,
something does need to change.

And that might mean stepping
out of a comfort level and it

doesn't mean taking a giant leap
and being like, here's my house.

Here's where I live.

This is my kids.

This is everything.

Here's my deepest, darkest secret.

No, it's what are the things
that you're open to share?

What are the stories big or small
that you might be open to sharing?

Yeah, exactly.

And, and for me, one of the shifts, if
you will, was that I did a lot of the

personal here's what I'm doing, here's a
story about this in my home or whatever.

And, Here's how I support people.

Here are some steps you can take the
shift for me was working to combine those

two things because I was often heavy on
the let's just have fun on social media.

I'm your friend and not.

Oh, and then, okay, here's a post about
how to write a better email and when we

can tell the stories like you help people
really identify and get comfortable

with of weaving those things together,
and we do it in our own heads, but we

don't always think to put that in our.

content.

Oh, I'm making this,
recipe from my family.

It's kind of like how I work with clients
and what we do, find those threads

and then post some of that on social
media that brings the two together.

So for me, when I did more of that it just
started making a difference in my work.

So speaking of bringing more of
you together, when you started your

business, What made you decide to
start with your name and personal

branding for your name specifically?

Because you can reach
Deb at debcomen.Com.

It took me six years to get
to that point and understand

that's what I wanted to do.

So I'm curious.

What made you start there?

Yeah.

So it simply, I mean, I love to come
up with names and naming things.

And I also felt like people are
hiring me, the person to support them.

Like we're talking about with my unique
background and way of working with people.

And once we add a name, and I know
for some there's a reason to do

that, a brand other than our name,
there's a tiny, now there's a step.

Oh, I see the brand name.

Wait, who is that?

And it really struck me, Kendra, early
on when I would get emails from someone

and In the email, it was only the brand.

It was signed the brand and I didn't
know who it was until I did a little

research and said, Oh, it's her.

I really like her.

But to be honest, when I read those
emails without knowing it was her.

I didn't feel that connection to that.

So for me, it was kind of, just
seemed like the obvious thing that I

want people to remember me and know
me and that they're getting me, not

someone on my team when they hire me.

And there's nothing wrong with people
who work that way, but the way

my business is structured, you're
hiring me to write those emails for

you and to teach you the strategy.

So why not keep it simple?

I think that's really important and I
think it I mean it obviously depends on

the business, it depends on the structure,
it depends on what you're doing but

for a service based business as someone
who had two brands and two sides in

my business and was trying to navigate
them and coming from corporate I very

much had a very large step in between
me because this is how Kendra Would

the person would respond to something.

This is how kind of the marketer would
respond to something or the marketing

strategist would respond to something.

This is how field marketing or
motor marketing or the brand

would respond to something.

So all of a sudden I have like
40 filters in front of me, not

even including like the number
of things I was trying to manage.

But I found that with those filters in
front of me creating copy and writing was

so hard and it's always been something
that came very naturally to me, but I

felt like I was like, okay, let me put
on my brand hat and now I've got to write

like with the brand hat on and it was
such a difference and it was so freeing

once I decided to let all of that go.

Yeah, I mean completely.

And I think when you, when
people choose a brand name other

than their name, that's fine.

They just really need to work to
get their name and their face out

there if they want that connection.

Like you said, if it fits
with their business structure.

Things like, we've seen before is your
profile on social media, your logo.

image, or is it your face?

These are the things that allow us
to kind of still make the connection

without just being behind the brand.

And again, it might work for some
people, but if we're service based,

if we work one on one or small
groups where we want people to know

us, then we have to get ourselves.

More than just the brand name.

So, and I want to say something very
specifically because Deb said that

she would actually research emails
to figure out who they were coming

from, because she's a nice person.

I, if I don't know who's emailing
me or why they're emailing

me, I'm going to delete that.

I think 90 percent of people would
also delete that because I'm not saying

yeah, but I live too short if you are
going to keep a secret from me and

not tell me who you are and why you're
emailing me and I don't know you one.

Read the digital etiquette for
dummies book because it's in there.

I wrote the email sections, but two,
why are you cluttering my inbox without

letting me know even who you are?

Yeah, you may as well just text me
as a person whose name and contact

information isn't in my phone.

Like I'm going to respond the same way.

I'm not going to be the kindhearted
person who's going to do the

research to find out why you're
emailing and who you're, I love that.

I can't say I always do that, but in
that case I was like, wait a minute

again, like asking why am I on this list?

And was I, did I sign up for this?

No.

So I unsubscribe a little but yeah,
most people will just let it go.

life's too short.

Unsubscribe.

Yeah, it's true.

And the same with.

People not using their name anywhere.

It's hard to make connection.

What if you want to send them a note?

Are you saying, dear,
you know, brand name?

Or do you want to say, hey, Kendra,
I love what you just sent out today.

The other thing related to that
is people speaking in the third

person in all their content.

I mean, that's a biggie.

And I'm sure it goes back to proper
English or what you learned at school.

But if you were writing dead.

is doing this week and I'm the brand,
I'm the person, why would I not say I?

And again, not faulting people, but I
think we don't always stop and think

about how is our message being received?

How are, how does it, how is it
for that person on the other end?

Not the way we think we're supposed
to show up, like you were saying

earlier, but how do, how will they
best receive us and our message?

That's so funny.

I don't actually, I have to go back
through and change my stuff because I tend

to say we, and I've done this my entire
life, both personally and professionally.

Like we're doing this, we're doing that.

I don't know how many of me, sometimes
it's me and my dog, sometimes it's me

and friends, sometimes it's me and the
former team I had when they were my

team, like we, and it is very much like.

No, it's me.

I'm doing it.

Stop giving someone else this
imaginary royal we credit, right?

Like it is just me.

Right.

And it probably goes back to mindset.

I'm sure as you see with your clients,
and I know I've experienced, like,

how confident are we saying I?

Yeah.

You know, I, this is the way to be.

This is what I.

I think you should do, the more
comfortable we get with that, the more

we're able to just go out there with
the I instead of the brand name or,

my other, like, here's my pet peeve.

We're going to, it's along the
lines, here's my pet peeve.

And I, when I ran a department and
an agency, my last job, I would go

in client meetings and it was always
the women that did this, but they

would say, well, You know, we'd be
talking to a client and they'd say,

Well, I kind of did this research.

Okay, you know what?

You didn't kind of do research.

I saw you spend like 10
hours doing research.

And when you start to get those
hedging words in there, so it's kind

of, it's kind of the same, right?

It's very similar to the we.

Or not taking credit.

It's you either did it or you didn't.

If you, and it's creating those
hedging words that also hold you back

because then you're not committing
to something that you already did.

You spent days doing this research.

Own it.

You spent a lot of time learning
these things so that you can

present it and talk about it.

It doesn't matter.

I mean, okay, I'm a former professor,
so it doesn't matter if you took classes

as long as you found the way to learn.

Yeah.

And you're so right in that.

And even as I was sharing that story,
I'm saying, well, I think I don't even

want to use that example because often
we say, I think this is the way to go.

And you're so right.

this is what I'm recommending.

Yeah.

It's very different than this is what I
think you may want to do if you agree.

And I'm a big offender.

And in that way of showing up, we're
eroding our own confidence and confidence

in us, our own trust, because people are
You know, they seem like small little

tweaks, but they make a huge difference
for our own ability to step into, our own

conviction about what it is we're saying.

And also, people make their
buying decisions based on trust.

We need to trust it, and we need to Let
them see that in action so that they're

like, we want, do we want them to say,
maybe I'll spend my money with you.

Maybe I won't, I'm not really sure.

No, we want, like, we want to
help people make a decision.

Yes or no.

No's are fine, but let's make a decision.

Let's be who we are.

Let's speak and stand in our convictions.

And then, if we're the right person and
it's the right time, they'll say yes.

It's so funny you were saying that
I absolutely was just thinking of a

story, like an example I heard, right?

Like we're marketers, business owners.

We have our place.

We know what we're doing.

We know we're good at
it, but we have trouble.

It's that self promotion, right?

Like it feels gross or somebody the
other day I said to quote a friend of

mine, she said, it feels like garbage
to self promote, but here's the deal.

I don't want to go to a surgeon.

I don't want to get on a flight and
have the pilot say, well, I, I think

we're going to do pretty well today.

I was looking at the weather
chart and the navigation and I

think pretty sure we'll be okay.

Here's hoping the surgeon that
walks in like, I kind of think that

it's, you know, your gallbladder.

Oh, maybe I'll find out
something different.

Maybe it'll be your appendix.

I don't know.

We'll find out.

We'll just do it.

We'll see.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, we're not doing surgery
and we're not flying people, but

at the same time for your business,
I'm going to take it as seriously.

Because it is so much to my clients and it
is so much my business means a lot to me.

Yeah.

That while I'm not curing
cancer, it is still important.

Yeah.

And so for all of us to show up
from so many of us to show up like,

Oh, kind of, I kind of did that.

Great.

We can't be wishy washy.

I mean, and like to what you said earlier,
like, and is there a way, like there is

room for nice in business, unless nice is
undermining how we show up confidently,

which in my case, I have done that before.

I want to be nice to the person.

I don't want to push them.

I don't want to.

Well, no, that's fine.

You can still make invitations.

You can still make offers.

Like we talk about promotion.

I really like to think about it as
making offers with solutions for

people who have, have a challenge.

If we're not going to promote, we're
not going to make those offers to them.

Are we going to just let them sit
there and figure it out on their own?

And the same to how, Often or
frequently we might do it, or how

many emails are you going to send
when you're promoting something?

You might feel like you're
bombarding or bothering, but

people need ample opportunity.

and sufficient information, which
is why when we're doing an email

campaign, we're going to touch on
different things because different

things are going to matter to people.

Not everyone is going to use the
same criteria to make their decision.

So when people say I sent two
emails, three emails, no one bought

the thing, it must be terrible.

I'm terrible.

I know they didn't see it or you didn't
give them enough information or you

didn't give them enough time or reminders.

I think that we have a lot of, things
to examine when it comes to why people

feel uncomfortable about promoting.

Certainly there's a lot of stuff out
there that is garbage and gross and

feels like we don't want any part of
that, but that doesn't mean that's the

only way to get our work out there and
to get hired and to get new clients.

A hundred percent.

Those of you listening can clearly see
why she's so good at what she does.

You can hear your desire to
help people and that empathy

that you have come through.

That's why you created your
trust framework to help people

get past that too, right?

Exactly.

And it's really why I created a
lot of the things I've created

are things that I just did.

And then like we talked about slow
myself down to say what is my process

so that one I could just take a look
at that and be able to make it into a

framework like you've done with yours
to be able to teach it to someone else.

I have a framework around
what to do when you.

want to engage more on social media or
people don't usually approach it that way.

They want social media to work for them.

How does it work where it gets us
business or gets us visibility?

And the trust framework is just to
slow people down before they just hop

on there and post their next thing.

There's a process of engaging in a way
that's meaningful with other people.

So that's where I came from.

I love it because otherwise you're just
spinning your wheels like you're posting

to post you're not putting much thought
into it and I've seen a lot there's so

many different philosophies when it comes
to posting on social media writing emails

promoting your brand promoting yourself
and there's so many different philosophies

and approaches that really it makes the
trust method the trust framework you've

created stand out because none of them
that I've seen Include the very important

step of taking it in and reflecting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And for me, one of the things that
happened that made it so much more

meaningful to me was when I slowed myself
down, looked at the process and really

made it a point of leading with that.

I've always done the engagement, but I
had run out of my own content and it's

like, Oh, All right, I'll just engage.

I'll do and right after that was
when BuzzSumo recognized me as a top

100 content marketer at the time.

And what I loved about it is it
wasn't based on numbers, followers,

any of that kind of stuff.

It was based on data that
had to do with engagement.

How much are you engaging
with other people's content?

Versus adding your links or posting and
all the things I was doing and because

that's what really, you know, not just
about being recognized, but that's what

also allows you to open social media
again after doing the trust steps and you

have a whole bunch of notifications of.

conversations happening because of that.

So now you're not just
posting the next thing.

You're actually having meaningful
conversation with different

people and it's way easier later
to create content from that.

You know, what are the, what,
what's inspiring me to now

share more about my process.

But, um, so it really works.

And I think many, People do it naturally.

Some don't even, doesn't even
cross their mind to do this.

They just think social
media doesn't work for them.

And, um, it's much to what you do with
people about moving from invisible to

invincible is like, get in there and have
conversations, not just about what you

want to be talking about, but what do
the people you want to be connected with.

Are already talking about how can you
show up there I want to point out that

you can see that you can hear tabs
passion for this and when you look at

the conversations that are happening
and creating that engagement when it's

really just like a natural curiosity.

And empathy towards making those
connections and a focus there when you

start to shift that I need to be selling
a hundred percent of the time and start

to create a balance between the two,
you, it is going to work and those

types of actions, those little actions
that Deb's recommending and those tips

she's giving us right now is really the
difference that makes the difference

when you start connecting with people.

Yeah, it is so easy and there's so
many companies out there who just push

information and still use social media
and who still use the internet as a way

to just amass advertisement and when
companies start showing their employees

and when companies start posting as
them as the people, not the brand.

You know, Wendy's, those things aside,
National Park Service, hilarious,

by the way, aside, but for the
smaller business owners, and I've

seen it and I've worked across all
these different industries, right?

I had two sides of an agency working
cannabis and CBD and higher ed, fintech,

and every single time when we focused
on people and not the product and not

the service and not the thing you were
selling 100 percent of the time and you

gave people that chance to see the people
behind it, that's where the difference

came in and that is Deb's talking about
you're just talking about making that

one step, taking that one step further
and actually connecting with people

and engaging with them at that point.

Yeah.

I mean, it does.

It works.

And, and you build trust.

And I know you've experienced
this too, that when we build those

relationships and it's not just the one
conversation like, Oh, I'll hop in here.

Cause it's on my topic, but when we
make it a point to seek those out, then

moving forward, where are those people?

Where's the conversation going next time?

Then we, Find or I have found,
I know you have too, people will

refer work to us and they've never
seen our product or deliverable.

They've never seen an email
I've written, but they'll say,

Oh, you need help with email.

You should, talk to Deb, get to know her.

Why is that?

Well, it's because they trust us and
they are seeing us communicate and

engage that they can then make the
trust inference that, Oh, she probably

does a really good job with that too.

So, so, but it's a much more natural way.

Then here's my latest, greatest
thing you can buy, and it's fine.

We do do that some of the time,
but that can't be the bulk of it.

That is why email's not working,
or that is why social media is not

working because you're using it
as a one way broadcasting tool.

As a rule of thumb, when I've taught
social media in the past, I always

recommended it was like no more than 20
percent should be promotional and sales.

Everything else should be adding
value and educating and inspiring

or whatever aligns with the
brand and the type of content.

Is that a rule of thumb that
you still think is accurate

or do you scale it up or down?

What does that look like?

It's funny because I don't usually use.

I've heard that before and I, maybe
that's how my numbers would stack up.

I honestly don't know because I tend
to ride the wave of what feels natural.

I talk a lot with my clients, if you're
not making offers at least every quarter,

then yeah, maybe that's why your revenue
isn't where you want it to be or your

client case loader, that sort of thing.

So that's one thing, but as far as
going from post to post or platform

to platform or emails, I do agree.

It needs to be a smaller portion
where we're actually full on promoting

and have some limiters on it.

Like how many emails over how much time.

Sort of thing.

But otherwise, I think it's
just, feeling into, and this

is what I do for my clients.

Like it's time, Hey, you haven't
made an offer on social media at all.

So people might not even know
you do that thing that you do.

I use that as a guide and will help
people delineate what is that frequency,

if that's the way they prefer.

to work.

But usually people are lopsided, Kendra.

I mean, they're usually either
all promotion or zero promotion.

And a lot of the, my helpers and healers
and service providers are very little

promotion because of all the icky stuff
we talked about, but they need to be

making opportunities available to people.

, I usually go by that.

And the other thing I will say about
engaging in real conversation is when

we build those relationships, the
people who know us will say, Hey, Deb,

you have an XYZ available, don't you?

Can you share that here?

And I do that with people too.

I know you have a podcast.

Would you share your
podcast with everybody?

So we can trust that when we show up not
looking for podcast listeners necessarily

in other people's conversations, but
that when we've built relationships,

we will get those invitations.

That is much more natural way
to do it than, Hey, and again,

nothing wrong with, Oh, this was
a subject on my podcast recently.

That can be the most
natural way to show up.

But if it's brand new people,
brand new arena, most of us are

going to wait an opportunity where
we're asked to put that in there.

So it's all the seeds, the seeds of
building trust, the seeds of starting

relationships with new people and
nurturing the ones with the people

we already know, , that ultimately
help people make the decision like,

Oh, I want to get to know her more.

I'm going to hop on her email list,
or I want to follow her on the other

social media platforms where we
both are, and that's how we leave

the breadcrumbs out there for the
right people to connect with us more

deeply, ultimately, maybe one on one

Here's the next question that I
think people might be wondering is

how much time do you recommend that
people spend engaging or creating

content because that could easily
be a rabbit hole that takes forever

or it could be, five minutes a day.

Yeah.

So I do teach people how to do
it in under 30 minutes a day on

social media, the engagement piece.

You know, myself, I love social media.

I'm sure I spend a lot more than 30
minutes a day as you probably do too.

But it's more on engagement than it is
on content posting or content creation.

So it doesn't have to be the rabbit hole
and it is more about consistency and the

relationship and how often do you need to
show up to keep that relationship going?

What I love about the way I've done
it for myself and taught my clients is

it allows for us to be humans who take
breaks, who stop posting for a while our

work should not dry up because of that.

If we've built real connections,
it won't, it can be unaffected.

So consistency is important, but
to me, it's not so much every

Tuesday at noon as being there and
contributing value when you're there.

I think it doesn't have to be a lot of
time, but I also think it's unrealistic

to say, five minutes a day, and you'll be
golden, which everyone wants that, right?

Tell me I can do this
without working at all.

Well, it takes a little bit because we
need to care about who we're talking with

and be clear about how we want to show up.

I love that.

Thank you.

Deb, as we're wrapping up today, do
you have any last advice or tips for

someone who's wondering hypothetically.

She just said engaging
with people is easy.

I don't think it's easy.

Do you have a tip that for someone
that might be approaching it that way?

Yeah.

I don't know who this person would be.

I know.

I'm sure there's some out there
are going to be like, no, this

isn't going to work for me.

Are you the person who, who, doesn't ever
strike up a conversation with people.

You might be like, you
might be an introvert.

You might be someone who doesn't
care to meet new people and all that.

I would go back to, if you're running a
business and you're not achieving whatever

goals you have, whether it's clients or
revenue, something needs to be different.

You may need some support.

to engage in a way that's more
meaningful that works for you.

so try it.

Try some of the things we've
talked about here today.

Look for resources or people to help
you exercise that a little bit more.

And you may find that it doesn't take
much to do the things that we're talking

about here today, but the results are,
can be phenomenal and they can save

you so much more time than cranking out
content and writing blogs every day.

And again, nothing wrong with
that, but there are easier, faster

ways to make connections that help
you achieve your business goals.

Thank you.

And on that note, where
can people find you?

Oh, they can find me at DebComen.Com
and pretty much anywhere on social

media as Deb Komen Writing or Deb Comen.

And I'd love to connect with your
audience and, let's us get in there and

practice some of what we're talking about
here today and have some conversations

about what's important to you.

I love this.

Thank you so much.

To be clear, part of why I invited Deb
here is because she's so good at this.

So where I have to work toward
it full transparency, Deb just

does all of this naturally.

So thank you so much for
joining us today, Deb.

Thank you, Kendra, and you're better
than you think you are at all of this,

and you've been doing it for a long
time, , but I appreciate that, and.

It's been really fun talking
about it with you today.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

And thank you for listening
and joining us today.

And remember at KendraLosee.com, you
can find business visibility, strategy

and coaching and the invisible to
invincible lab, so join the wait

list and learn more about it for
the next time because students are

already showing up and learning a
ton and Changing how they approach

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how they show up for their business.

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